FAO Cycling Coach - Cadence v Speed
or anyone else with an opinion, for that matter. This is a long winded question, so bear with me please. Basically it relates to cycling and what cadence you should be maintaining at this time of year and again in races. From what I gather it is more efficient to be pedalling lower gears at a higher cadence, than to be turning higher gears with a lower cadence.
This doesn't really come natural to me and I prefer to just mash through the higher gears. But I have been trying to spin easier gear and I guess my efficiency (or whatever name you want to put on it has improved), as compared to last year I don't get the feeling, that the pedals are moving faster than my feet, when I try to do this. I've been staying off the outside ring and have the chain on the bigger cogs at the back. And this is my question; Is this good training for the summer, when I will be pushing harder gears? What I notice when I shift down a few cogs, is that while my cadence obviously decreases, my speed increases, by what I reckon at least is a disproportinate amount. Does this mean that spinning at higher cadences is making me more efficient? Or should I just keep it in a harder gear and get used to cycling at a quicker pace?
Thanks,
Alan
Cadence - One More Thing
Why is it when it comes towards the end of long/hard cycles, it gets progressively harder to spin easy gears? Obviously my legs are getting tired, but when it reaches this stage, I find it much easier to pedal higher gears at a lower cadence.
Don't have a cadence sensor, so I just go off feel, but I'm sure a comfortable and far more sustainable rpm for me at this point, would be much closer to 60 than the magic number of 90.
It's probably something to do with fast twitch/slow twitch fibres and using fat supplies versus glycogen supplies. But owing to the fact that my legs cannot cope with the higher cadence, is all this not a contradiction of the perceived wisdom, that it is more energy efficient to be cycling at a higher cadence?
The fitter you are the easier
The fitter you are the easier it is to maintain the revs. My own experience is exactly the same. When I was returning to racing from a break or injury I always had to go higher and higher in the gears to stay with groups as the race went on. Had to either accept I was not ready and let them go or push the big gears and risk damage to knees etc.. Purely a fitness issue. Be interesting to track your speed as the revs go down, are you maintaining the same pace or slowing down?
Stephen
Initially I'm slowing down,
Initially I'm slowing down, as I lose the ability to maintain the revs. I stop feeling resistance in the pedals, which I find very annoying, so I move into higher gears and get back up to speed.
Like you coming back from injury, mashing the higher gears is the way I tend to cycle in races and I guess with the distances I have been racing up till now, I'm still begining the run with relatively fresh legs. With an ironman distance race in August though, I don't think this will be the case.
Don't want to be bugging you with questions, but do I need to persevere with the tips you've previously given on pedalling fast and it'll eventually take care of itself? Or can I just accept the fact, that I'm not blessed with an abundance of fast twitch muscle fibres and work with the physiological make-up I've got? Ignorance is bliss.
Stick with me on this and I
Stick with me on this and I think you will start to see the benefits when you start to do high intensity intervals and you are going up through the gears and still getting faster while pedaling fast. What I am hoping to see is that you will use the same gears in short races as last year but spin them. Then moving on to IM you will have developed a good cruising rpm which leaves the legs ready to run. Hang in there. For a 5 hour IM split you need to be riding 53X16 at 85rpm. 53X18 @87 rpm gives a 5.30 split. Easy writing it down of course.
Stephen
Where did 90rpm come from
From what I have read and my opinion, humble as it is..
For many years all lab tests focused on total energy use to determine what RPM was most efficient. This invariably gave an rpm of about 60. This also happens to be the pace we naturally walk at, and beginner cyclist pedal at. It is just humans natural pace. The problem with 60rpm was it was totally contradicted by what elite cyclists insisted on doing. it was only when the type of energy being used was taken into account that the cyclists 90rpm made sense.
To generate a given power output in watts using lower rpm requires greater numbers of fast twitch fibres which use glycogen supplies in the muscle. Using higher rpm uses slow twitch fibres burning fat. So the higher rpm uses more energy overall but less of the good stuff and doesn't have the give lactic acid build-up.
Thats the logic but pedaling fast is a learned skill so you have to practice which is what Alan and John have indicated they have been doing and the results they are having fit a recognised pattern. Alan's power levels and Vo2 have probably not changed much over the winter but his ability to turn a gear has. Hence a perceived increase in efficiency which probably has more to do with a new skill than improved heart and lungs.
John has more of an Ulrich look than a Contador and 84rpm is probably about right for him.
A few tips on pedalling fast
Find a flat stretch of road, put the bike in its lowest gear and ride as fast as you can for 200m. you should be bouncing off the saddle. put the bike in a higher gear 1 at at time until you are going as fast as you can but not bouncing and still putting pressure on the pedals. Practice this weekly. you will be spinning at 140rpm+ at times.
Do sprint reps 150-200m on as high a gear as you can turn at 100rpm+. Become accustomed to turning a high gear fast.
When riding in a group ask yourself are you feeling comfortable, perhaps too comfortable. Try riding in a lower gear and keep going lower as you get comfortable at the new pace. Check the rider in front of you and always try to be spinning faster.
Do not overspin. You always want to feel pressure on the pedal.
I have always had a simple system for training. Speed or strength. I always try to pedal undergeared or overgeared. I try not to ride on 42x16 but on 42x18 or 52x17/16 when on steady spins. Obviously the high gear work is at lower rpm. Intervals are done at high revs with highest gears. Hill strength work is done sitting barely touching the bars with a high gear at low revs. Hill sprints out of the saddle highest gear I can turn fast.
Stephen
Re: Cadence v Speed
Hey Alan,
In my humble opinion I think everyone has a cadence at which they are most efficient. However for me this cadence can change over time depending on what training I'm doing. For instance during my peak last year I reckon my most efficient cadence was ~84.
From a cadence point of view my training look a bit like this:
During all periods of my training my warm-ups and cool downs are done between 90-100 cadence pushing an easy resistance.
In the base period during my long intervals I roll through the gears, each for a few minutes at a time, while keeping the intensity the same. My cadence will vary from 70-100.
All isolated leg drills are done at greater than 90 cadence.
Spins-up completed are completed at my maximum cadence (i.e. the cadence I can maintain without bouncing)
During the build periods I try and focus my longer intervals at my most efficient cadence. i.e. the cadence that gives me the largest speed for the intensity that the interval has to be completed.
So basically I train above and below my ideal... This is the right time of year for investigating. In a lot of training articles I read a lot about the magic 90 number for cadence. I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Everyone is different.... again in my humble opinion.
Happy spinning,
John.
Thanks for Replies
Advice is very useful, need to find a flat stretch of road and get out and practise those drills now, which incidentally I intend doing after running on Saturday morning. Going to be leaving from the Park pretty much as soon as running finishes. Have another commitment that afternoon, so going to be sticking to a pretty tight schedule. Will be out for about two hours, mixing it up with a fairly steady pace and my take on some of that fast paced, high cadence stuff, Stephen is suggesting. Anybody who wishes to come along is welcome, it'll keep me honest.
Alan
Jaysus, that's all very
Jaysus, that's all very complicated! I just turn my iTunes to shuffle and go varying degrees of psycho depending on what songs come on!!
A string of Black Sabbath, Metallica and Motorhead tunes and I'm in a heap praying for some Enya!!
A bit amazed
I know there's humor in your post Kevin bit I'm always a bit amazed at that sort of training attitude (I'm just going out for a ~3 hour cycle) among people. People would very never go to the swim pool for a 60 min session and not think about technique at all. Why would cycling be any different? (Or running for that matter). Granted technique isn't as big a part of cycling as swimming but for many people it's an awful lot easier to improve your overall cycle speed by improving technique (especially for fitter people) then it is to improve speed through fitness gains. And the basic cycling technique stuff (cadence) is far simpler then the basic swim technique you'll put so much concentration/effort into.